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Sarcastic messages...
...and are they too scared to put down their email addresses as well?
 Matt Richardson <matto.richo@ntlworld.com>
- Saturday, March 31, 2001 at 22:42:13 (BST)
Sarcastic Comments
Why is it that the most sarcastic and bad mannered people on this message board are too scared to put down their names?
 Heather
- Saturday, March 31, 2001 at 21:19:19 (BST)
interview
I nearly peed my pants laughing when I saw that the essay component of the interview is still about MP's privacy or supermarkets - it was the same over three years ago when I started, and we all knew these questions had been around for a long time then...oops there goes the spontaneous, surprise element then.
 rach <rachael2001@fsmail.net>
- Saturday, March 31, 2001 at 18:30:56 (BST)
Sharon?????????
What are you on about?
- Saturday, March 31, 2001 at 13:17:33 (BST)
Shifts
To help with a pilot we are doing, can you please let us know what would you rather work. 1. 2 Lates, 3 earlys. ? = 371/2 2. 5 Lates one week, 5 earlys the next.=371/2. or flexi shifts. Doing whatever=371/2. Please let us know. Kind regards US.
MICK& LIN
- Friday, March 30, 2001 at 23:32:56 (BST)
student nurse's accountability
Hi there all you dedicated students do you know what your accountability is as a student nurse in other words who you are answerable to. im in my second year as a student and would like some answers to this question. No one seems to have written guidelines about student nurses while out on practice . Can YOU help to clarify this????? Thanks Sandra
sandra <sandracotton9@aol.com>
- Friday, March 30, 2001 at 17:21:29 (BST)
re:watchdog/accident grp
well yet again a student nurse gets involved in a public matter. did you see me exposing this mad director who did not even appologise to all of the customers, but he said sorry to me. write your views on claims direct and accident group i would love to hear from u sharon 07956261476
 sharon <s.macdonald@talk21.com>
- Thursday, March 29, 2001 at 22:33:16 (BST)
oh, and in response to aileen - nope, never heard of them.....
 ange
- Thursday, March 29, 2001 at 19:00:56 (BST)
Can anyone help?!!!
I have to write a synopsis for a presentation on 'respecting and maintaining dignity for patients in critical care'. Does anyone know where I can find some articles/studies on this as I have spent 4 hours seraching on the web and also in my ever so resourceful textbooks but have drawn a blank with both! Please help......
 ange
- Thursday, March 29, 2001 at 19:00:10 (BST)
Agency
Dear Everyone Has any heard of an agency called Global Healthcare Recruitment?
 Aileen <katiemouse55@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, March 29, 2001 at 13:59:56 (BST)
Maternity Unit at the Kent & Canterbury Hospital
Sue, The maternity unit at the K & C is, at the moment,apparently closing on Saturday at 5pm until Tuesday at 5pm while a new linear accelerator is installed. The maternity unit however as you knew it is set to close under the Health Authority's plan to reconfigure health services in East Kent. Instead there will be a midwifery led only unit with no SCBU. Mothers requiring medical intervention will have to travel either to Thanet or Ashford, according to the post code area in which they live. More details of what is happening in East Kent can be found on the RCN web site (www.rcn.org.uk)discussion groups>members issues>Healthcare in East Kent. Another web site on which you will find details of the current situation can be found on www.ekhospitals.co.uk. There you will see pictures of patients lying in corridors and other non in-patient areas at K & C due to the severe shortage of beds. This in a hospital that is due to loose acute beds and its 24 hour consultant led A & E department. Locally we find it difficult not to liken the conditions in which patients in East Kent are now finding themselves with those found in some third world countries. See what you think after looking at the two web sites! Today I have been told that the A & E department at the K & C was the worst one in the country following a recent 'Casualty Watch' undertaken by the Community Health Council.
 East Kent Nurse
- Thursday, March 29, 2001 at 12:04:24 (BST)
I got in!
I recently managed to get offered a place at Manchester on the diploma course. I have to say that I was surprised at the total lack of any previous knowledge/experience displayed by some of the applicants! Having said that, I got the distinct impression that places would have been offered to all as long as no one bared their bum or swore allegiance to the devil. Apparently those actions are required only during management recruitment any amount of knowledge/experience however being entirely optional. P.S. anyone got any suggestions for reading matter, to get me in mood for three years of slog.
 Dave <misc@sparkles.synergie.net>
- Thursday, March 29, 2001 at 12:03:16 (BST)
Is it true?
that the maternity unit at the infamous Kent & Canterbury hospital will close next weekend? I can,t belive that the City of Canterbury will not have a baby unit. I worked there in the 60s/70s and as far as I can recall, I loved every minute. I now travel the world with my husband,s work The NHS in the UK may get some bad publicity but I promise you it is the best system that I have seen. I am sure given a little more time the labour party will mend all the damage that the conservatives did to it. All the best Sue.
 Sally Gibbs
- Wednesday, March 28, 2001 at 23:02:39 (BST)
MICHELLE
I also had 20mins to write an essay on supermarkets or M.P's privacy.Then the interview was the normal like why do you want to be a nurse? what do you think a nurse does? would you be able to do unsocial hours ? etc Don't worry you'll be fine. Good luck

- Wednesday, March 28, 2001 at 22:19:07 (BST)
interview
I had to do an essay on my interview day. one was about, famous people's right to privacy and the other was about the plan to build a supermarket in a rural area!!! Mmmm, appropriate!! Then I was asked all sorts of questions, such as, what do you understand by the term confidentiality etc. I felt that my GNVQ in H & S care stood me in good stead for my interview, but I do agree that you need to know and understand a bit of what you are getting into. No one can prepare you for the hard slog ahead!!!!
 Anita
- Wednesday, March 28, 2001 at 21:04:58 (BST)
Vice!
Did anyone see "VICE" last night on telly? I missed it but they were saying at work today, that a escort agency boss said that "most of the girls that work for her are nurses" they earn £1,250 per 5 hour week. If that is true is it any wonder that the NHS is losing staff by the bus full.Mmmmmmmm. Now let me see, what time is the next bus.
 Emma <emmawingate@hotmail.com>
- Wednesday, March 28, 2001 at 19:47:36 (BST)
Wait for it, wait for it.......
Come September, Matt.......
 jb
- Wednesday, March 28, 2001 at 15:51:59 (BST)
Say no to Miss World, I think not!
The sort of vomit-inducing cliches that the average Miss World would feel embarrassed to churn out will do fine. Perhaps a short 'personal' story about standing doing the washing-up when you heard harp music and saw a bright light, heard the voice of god command you... Also key phrases like "I would happily do the work for free" or "what, you mean if I add up the study time and the bank shifts and it comes to less than 80 hours a week, SUPER!!". This should see you straight in!!
- Tuesday, March 27, 2001 at 20:34:11 (BST)
Be yourself whydontcha!
Ahh...the memories of my entrance interview (sigh). As I recall, I was so nervous, they asked me one question and I spent the entire 15 minutes jibbering on without a long enough pause for them to ask another one. Anyway, Michelle, they asked me things like 'What do you think is an important aspect of nursing?' and 'What do you think nursing consists of?' There was the inevitable, 'and so why did you pick nursing?' I would suggest you avoid the 'Miss World' answer to that one which would be 'because I want to care for sick people'. This, I'm reliably informed, makes interviewing lecturer's feel nauseous. Do try to read up as much as you can about nursing, and while acknowledging that you are aware of current difficulties within the profession - I'd also suggest you refrain from militantly banging your fist on the table about student fees,working conditions,hours etc. Positive vibes are appreciated by everyone. Good luck.
Sassy Besum
- Tuesday, March 27, 2001 at 18:35:30 (BST)
Payrise
Right, so Alan Milburn says student nurses are getting a 10.4% increase in the bursary, but when are we getting it??? I assume it's either April or September. Can anyone shed any light on the matter? I hope it's April cos an extra £40 could really help right now!
 Matt Richardson <matto.richo@ntlworld.com>
- Tuesday, March 27, 2001 at 17:03:28 (BST)
SUREN/MILES????!!??
Guess what is going on the RCN Chatrooms. I wouldn't be suprised if i pick up this sunday's news of the world and find that the photo of Miles (if the story really will be in there)is Suren
 London Student <rcn/ans>
- Tuesday, March 27, 2001 at 14:06:03 (BST)
Interview for University entry into Nursing
I have an interview at a University I wish to study nursing. I have not had an interview in quite some time, can anyone give me an idea as to what is covered in these interviews so that I can give it my best.
 Michelle
- Tuesday, March 27, 2001 at 13:15:53 (BST)
Interview for University entry into Nursing
I have an interview at a University I wish to study nursing. I have not had an interview in quite some time, can anyone give me an idea as to what is covered in these interviews so that I can give it my best.
 Michelle <MichelleMcQs@aol.com>
- Tuesday, March 27, 2001 at 13:08:15 (BST)
Hhhhhmmmmmmm................
Sounds like you have some interesting issues, miles - can't wait to read all about them. You don't happen to work for the aforementioned newspaper do you?..............
 ange
- Monday, March 26, 2001 at 19:09:31 (BST)
'Every other student'
Yes, well I wouldn't mind doing the non compulsory sociable hours and having the holidays of non nursing students.

- Monday, March 26, 2001 at 18:16:49 (BST)
RE PANORAMA PROGRAMME
Dear 'Worried Student' Unfortunately St Peter's hospital Chertsey (not Ashford as you have stated), is not the only one with problems! In East Kent a recently released 'Risk Assessment' document highlights problems in all three A & E departments. The following is an extract from the document: . CLINICAL RISK ISSUES 4.1 The Clinical Environment 4.1.1 Interviews were undertaken with several Accident and Emergency Department staff. Visits were also undertaken to the Accident and Emergency facilities at the Kent and Canterbury Hospital and Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother Hospital. Despite several attempts, it was unfeasible to undertake a visit to the Accident and Emergency Department within the William Harvey Hospital. Despite the best efforts of staff within that Department, the congestion within the Department and pressure upon all staff at the time of the HRRI visit, made it impossible for any staff to be spared to accompany and speak with the HRRI consultant. It has to be stated quite unequivocally that the Trust is being placed at very significant clinical risk within all Accident and Emergency facilities. The risk issues identified by staff coupled with the clear visual evidence whilst touring the two Accident and Emergency sites, clearly indicate that a vital hospital function is totally compromised. The number of patients attending the Departments, along with numerous bedded patients located within these departments is creating chaos. The stress, particularly for nursing staff, has become intolerable and the consequent clinical environment is fundamentally unsafe. It is remarkable that no major clinical catastrophe has occurred in recent times arising directly out of the clinical environment within which staff are operating. Some of the key operational risk issues observed or relayed to the Project Team included: . The bedding of up to thirty patients within the Department awaiting treatment/diagnosis, transfer or discharge (26 at the time of the HRRI visit to one of the departments). In addition to dedicated bays, these patients were observed to be located in the following areas: - Plaster rooms - fracture clinic facilities - relative's rooms - children's rooms - endoscopy facilities - theatre recovery areas - bathroom facilities - resuscitation bays - corridor areas . There are no emergency call bells or oxygen/suction facilities in most of the above areas; . The care of patients within the Accident and Emergency Departments awaiting treatment/discharge is severely compromised at busy times including: - poor or no clinical observation supervision or ongoing assessment - inability to provide patients with their routine medication - poor fluid management - poor meeting of dietetic needs . The patient crowding is further exacerbated by the presence of accompanying or visiting relatives/friends; . Where patients were located in appropriate side rooms, they were two per room. In addition to compromising privacy and dignity, these patients had been placed on trolleys tightly within the room transversely to the door thus precluding their speedy access from the room in a medical emergency; . At all three sites, patients are regularly spending, in some cases, in excess of 48 hours, in beds within the Department. In some cases, patients are then inappropriately self discharging owing to the inordinate length of waiting; . Triage is functioning ineffectively, and in many cases, is abandoned altogether at busy times owing to a lack of staff to meet the workload; . The paediatric waiting room area at the William Harvey Hospital Accident and Emergency facility is poorly equipped and has uncovered electrical sockets; . Trained nurse practitioners are not utilised in this capacity owing to pressure on the existing nursing establishment; . There is limited portering or domestic support to the Accident and Emergency Departments; . Accident and Emergency Departments have lost at least five experienced members of nursing staff during August/September 2000 which has exacerbated existing pressures; . General practitioner psychiatric referrals are sent directly through Accident and Emergency rather than to the appropriate psychiatric facility. Reportedly, this is due to the fact that staff within those psychiatric units are reluctant to receive such patients as once they are admitted, it is difficult to discharge them from those facilities. This position, if it can be substantiated, is wholly unacceptable; . Pressure on nursing staff is precluding the undertaking of even simple medical requests such as undertaking patient ECGs; . There is an inability to effectively record clinical advice provided via the telephone to callers to the Accident and Emergency Departments; . There is minimal RSCN availability with all three Accident and Emergency Departments, with one RSCN at the William Harvey Hospital site about to commence maternity leave. My Comments- All trust employed nurses working under these conditions should IMMEDIATELY be paid the same rates as agency nurses! Even if the Trust had given the BBC permission to film in the East Kent A & E departments, particularly the one at the William Harvey hospital, it would have been impossible for the camera men to have got into the departments! To 'Worried Student'I say PLEASE don't throw the towel in! YOU are the future of the nursing profession! I am sorry that my generation did not perceive what was going to happen within the nursing profession before it was too late to do something about it. It was only in 1995 for example that the RCN revoked the 'no strike' clause in its constitution. Never forget that YOU, along with those nurses already working in it, hold the future of the NHS in your hands!
 Retired NHS Nurse
- Monday, March 26, 2001 at 16:41:41 (BST)
Re: Degree Students
Catherine: Surely they dont expect you to take out hefty loans?!, my god! Every Other student has to.
- Monday, March 26, 2001 at 13:12:59 (BST)
PANORAMA LAST NIGHT
Stopped me in my tracks. Hopefully, St Peters Ashford is not representative of the NHS in general. Or is it? I don't think I want to work like that.......
 Worried Student
- Monday, March 26, 2001 at 09:44:12 (BST)
Good!
Good for you Miles. Anything that makes a students life better than it is at present must be a good thing. I look foreward to reading the story. We all know that the NEWS OF THE WORLD is the gutter press, but as it has the highest number readers, there must be a hell of a lot of people walking in the kerb.
Emma <emmawingate@hotmail.com>
- Sunday, March 25, 2001 at 18:36:12 (BST)
More News!
To those of you who are hard working caring students or nurses, I bow my head in respect. To those low-life who put messages on this forum and make-out that the messages are from me you are just pervs. By my whistle blowing it will pave the way for a better enviorment for the student of the future. Those of you who are slaging me off, are not, and never will be nurses. Those type of so-called "nurses" are just predators waiting to pounce on anyoue or anything who does better than them, because I, (thank god) have a brain and they do not. That said. The full story will be in the NEWS OF THE WORLD. Sunday week. There have loads of photos of me, so at least you will know what I look like. The story runs for three weeks, part 1,2,and3. part 3 will lead to heads rolling. More up-dates on Tuesday.27/03/201
 Miles
- Saturday, March 24, 2001 at 20:51:01 (GMT)
More News!
To those of you who are hard working caring students or nurses, I bow my head in respect. To those low-life who put messages on this forum and make-out that the messages are from me you are just pervs. By my whistle blowing it will pave the way for a better enviorment for the student of the future. Those of you who are slaging me off, are not, and never will be nurses. Those type of so-called "nurses" are just predators waiting to pounce on anyoue or anything who does better than them, because I, (thank god) have a brain and they do not. That said. The full story will be in the NEWS OF THE WORLD. Sunday week. There have loads of photos of me, so at least you will know what I look like. The story runs for three weeks, part 1,2,and3. part 3 will lead to heads rolling. More up-dates on Tuesday.27/03/201
 Miles
- Saturday, March 24, 2001 at 20:50:53 (GMT)
Degree Students
To the lass who's message appears second below this one, how come you don't get any bursary? I know that degree students get a bursary which is means tested, and if you aren't getting anything it makes me wonder why? How do you manage to live on nothing at all? Surely you aren't expected to take out hefty loans?
 Catherine <catherine1jod31@hotmail.com>
- Saturday, March 24, 2001 at 20:20:58 (GMT)
Big Dikked!
I is also a big dikked innit!!! I is a chief tosser like miles!!! Boyakasha!!!
 Brutish Nursing Webmaster <webmaster@brutish-nursing.com>
- Saturday, March 24, 2001 at 16:48:30 (GMT)
stop moaning!
i have just visited the message board for the first time and think that linda from canada has a point - and many of you british students are rude and xenophobic. I am currently in my fourth year of a nursing degree here in England and have never had a bursary or any financial help from the government. I wish i had a bursary but don't - so think yourselves lucky -not all british nursing students get one. i appreciate many of you are struggling with money - but at least you get something - we dont even get travelling expenses paid for!
 kirsty <Agostinikirsty@hotmail.com>
- Saturday, March 24, 2001 at 15:01:37 (GMT)
NO MODERATIING HERE?!?
To all users - In reply to the message implying that this message board is moderated, I would like to make it clear that this is an UNMODERATED Chat board. The idea is to allow people to express their view in whatever way they like.
Their has been very minimal problems regarding abuse of this service, but we leave it up to all users to express their views constructively and in a reasonable and sensible manner.
So carry on people - This is a free speech board - UNMODERATED! Thanks.
 Brutish Nursing Webmaster <webmaster@brutish-nursing.com>
- Friday, March 23, 2001 at 16:26:17 (GMT)
just a few things........
Thought as much miles.......enjoy your sanctuary, I'm sure you will feel more comfortable socialising with your own kind......oh and in response to Kate, where I've been on medical/surgical wards, one nurse usually looks after approx 8-10 patients
 ange
- Thursday, March 22, 2001 at 17:56:45 (GMT)
This sites gone a bit tame its been happening on the RCN student chat page. You can tell by the amount of moderating thats been going on. And guess who's at the centre of it all?????? You don't need three guesses of course.......................Yes its that former favourtite of the this chat page who's been making the odd return visit in disguise not your friend and definitely not mine yes folks SURENS BACK IN ALL HIS GLORY
- Thursday, March 22, 2001 at 17:44:30 (GMT)
How Many patients?
Dear All I was wondering, how many patients would one nurse have to look after on an ordinary Med/Surg ward in the UK?
 Kate Holleran <holleran@dcsi.net.au>
- Thursday, March 22, 2001 at 12:56:04 (GMT)
More scandal
Actually, I shouldn't let it go unsaid that I am the world's biggest prick and I don't know the first thing about nursing anyway. I prefer raking through peoples rubbish to make a quick buck...
 Miles
- Thursday, March 22, 2001 at 07:44:30 (GMT)
oooooh!!! whoever said it was we women who are bitches!!!!!!!! A SCANDAL??? Fab!!!
- Wednesday, March 21, 2001 at 21:11:16 (GMT)
childcare
I qualify as a mental health nurse in december, but my childminder who used to charge me the meagre fee of £50 a week to look after my daughter has handed in her notice. i am now looking at paying out around £100 a week for a nursery/child minder. i have been trying to see if there are any extra funds to meet these excessive costs (or else i have to go back to income support), so far the university says no and so does the nhs. all ideas welcome (apart from selling my body on the streets of course!)
 anne-marie osborne <h9150376@hud.co.uk>
- Wednesday, March 21, 2001 at 16:00:07 (GMT)
Dear Dave!
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehhehehehehhehehehehhehehehehhehhehahahaooooooooooooooooooooo, you make me laugh. No Dave! I wiil not be wasting any of my money. I intend to open a retreat for retired animals. Cats,dogs,donkeys,ponies,or whatever comes along. As long as they have had nothing to do with NHS management they will be most welcome. Oh by the way, dave thank you for your banter of the past. I am very sure that in due course you will be agreeing with everthing that I have said.
Miles
- Wednesday, March 21, 2001 at 07:25:08 (GMT)
Managers
That's right Miles, kick the NHS whilst it's down... It's no wonder there's not enough money in the pot to give us a substantial pay rise with idiots like you around. Go and live in America where people like you are normal.
 Matt Richardson <matto.richo@ntlworld.com>
- Wednesday, March 21, 2001 at 07:22:22 (GMT)
Managers
That's right Miles, kick the NHS whilst it's down... It's no wonder there's not enough money in the pot to give us a substantial pay rise with idiots like you around. Go and live in America where people like you are normal.
 Matt Richardson <matto.richo@ntlworld.com>
- Wednesday, March 21, 2001 at 07:21:39 (GMT)
Who are you to judge?
Hi Miles... The only thing sadder so far than your quickness to fire from the hip has been how wide of the mark your potshots have been. If the chip fits have broad enough shoulders to wear it. Poor little me how hard the world is. Will you donate your £200,000 "earnings" to the Labour Party or will you use the money to fund a comfortable step up on the "new money" social scale? Hey maybe you could join the Conservative Party :-)
 Dave <davergn@hotmail.com>
- Wednesday, March 21, 2001 at 00:07:42 (GMT)
Reply to Dave.
Judging by your reply Dave to my whistle blowing. I think you will make an "excellent NHS "MANAGER"
 Miles
- Tuesday, March 20, 2001 at 23:45:37 (GMT)
Hidden Agenda
I'm glad to see your true agenda is out in the open. Good luck to you if you make some money out of telling a story - although I'm not sure I would want to tell everyone if I failed in bed!! I can't say that I agreed with anyone who found you a breath of fresh air - way too bitter for me. If your story ends up changing things for the better then go for it - I just hope your not going for a fast buck and the limelight.
 Dave <davergn@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, March 20, 2001 at 23:33:00 (GMT)
Take Note
Hmmmm is a scandal about to be revealed Miles?
 Catherine <catherine1jod31@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, March 20, 2001 at 22:57:38 (GMT)
Take note!
Most of you who are setting out for a career in nursing are very caring folk, you get a sort of "buzz" in helping others. You are doing "Gods work", the media tells us all that we are all "angels". We are "public friend No1". It is not just a job to us, no, it is a "vocation". We are just so "special". WAKE UP YOUR CORN FLAKES ARE READY. If you belive that load of b------s then you must have been dreaming or just thick. The patients are no trouble, it is the so-called managers who are the problem. Most of the ones that I have met, just about "manage" to get out of bed in the morning let-alone manage staff. They will treat you like dirt. No NURSE OR HCA in the NHS will ever get any promotion on just merit. You will have to grovel for it (or be a freemason) Every time you think of management in the NHS think USELESS. If you want to transfer from one department to another then you will have to allow for CORRUPTION. If you go to bed with a senior in-service manager then you might and only might get the job, (you might be naff in bed) That is what I have found and it is a absolute scandal. I have today agreed with a national newspaper who are taking up the story, to tell them all. The fee that they are going to pay me is £35,000. In due course I will tell you which Sunday paper it is going in. They have told me that with TV fees I will get around £200.000 plus out of it. I CANT WAIT TO EXPOSE THE PRATS WHO SWAN AROUND THE WARDS THINKING THAT THEY KNOW IT ALL.
 Miles
- Tuesday, March 20, 2001 at 22:27:41 (GMT)
Chippy ice, eh?
Shame on the many for not welcoming our gracious friend from Canada. Hopefully Linda will return and tell us more of a different health service working for a different public in another country.
Roger <roger@obermaier.freeserve.co.uk>
- Monday, March 19, 2001 at 19:55:36 (GMT)
ps:
I have also been told by other students who have worked there that one of my mentors (I have 2), is hard work to get on with, so that will be fun won't it?
 anita
- Monday, March 19, 2001 at 11:45:24 (GMT)
NERVOUS!!!
I start my 3rd placement today but this is the first time that I will be on a busy medical ward!! my first one was over-staffed!! due to refurbishments and one ward being closed, that was in a rehab centre and the second was a LD day centre. I am a bit nervous as I don't have much confidence in my practical skills. I know that I have excellent interpersonal skills but that doesn't help me to physically handle patients does it?? Anyway I just needed to share that with you all and it is time to go and don my uniform for my late shift!! Wish me luck!! Anita
 Anita
- Monday, March 19, 2001 at 11:42:53 (GMT)
HELP
IM GOING TO BE DOING A NURSING COURSE AT GUILDFORD (HOPEFULLY!!) ,I WANT TO SPEAK TO OTHER STUDENTS THERE TO HEAR WHAT THEY THINK OF THE COURSE.
 SUZIE <SUZIEJUSTIN@AOL.COM>
- Sunday, March 18, 2001 at 12:07:35 (GMT)
Canada
Why do Alberta and the other province you mentioned have to pay if other provinces don't? That sounds unfair to me.
 Catherine <catherine1jod31@hotmail.com>
- Sunday, March 18, 2001 at 11:50:44 (GMT)
Ha ha ha!!! nice response Linda!! Glad to see you have a sense of humour, others would have taken offence at the comments thrown at you!!
- Sunday, March 18, 2001 at 09:08:45 (GMT)
A Response from the Not so Frozen wasteland
The Canada Health Act provide healthcare to all residents of the country. Only two provinces require payment for healthcare, Alberta and British Columbia. The cash comes from Ottawa, and its upto the provinces to figure out what to do with it. Nursing students here do not have the luxury of refusing to do any job on the wards. Yes, we make tea, coffee, toast, wipe up, make beds, give drugs, and all for the hope of making it through the day to go home and do the course work. When we graduate most of us work for the public hospital system. Those who go to private agencies, usually wind up doing homecare for patients that the government fund due to bed shortages, (no bed in hospital, palliative care or hospice, you have to be cared for at home by an agency nurse). So we pay our taxes, to fund the service, while running up an average of debt of $6000 in government loans, all in the hope of landing a job in a publicly funded hospital. Unlike the Americans, we don't turn people away at hospitals. For future information, lumberjacks are boring and politically incorrect, I'm pretty sure its illegal to molest moose, and the Mounties are fun but can be really thick.
 Linda <lindabwick@hotmail.com>
- Sunday, March 18, 2001 at 00:20:05 (GMT)
Only two provinces in Canada require residents to pay a health care premium (Alberta & British Columbia) the rest of the country doesn't. The Canada Health Act provides health care to all residents. Yes, prescription drugs are not paid for in most cases but the government does chip in to cover part of the cost to seniors and low income earners. Most nurses that graduate here work in public hospitals or regional agencies, those who wind up working for private agencies are usually doing homecare and those patients are very often covered by government cash. So at the end of the first year, most of us are lucky to only owe the goverment around $6000 for our training. We get to work for the government to pay back our student loans. And no, we can't refuse to make beds, serve tea, act as nursing assistants and still complete the course work.
 Linda <lindabwick@hotmail.com>
- Sunday, March 18, 2001 at 00:11:39 (GMT)
Canadians
Oh there's no harm in them having a look in - I like Canadians LOL. But God help anyone when they start slagging off us British (very patriotic me) - not that the Canadian lass did slag us off, she was merely putting her point, and I put mine as well - fairs fair.
Catherine <catherine1jod31@hotmail.com>
- Saturday, March 17, 2001 at 21:42:48 (GMT)
The National Front is ALIVE and most certainly KICKING
How dare those canadians even look at our web site, how dare they! Stop being so bloody british, this is the www, everyone is allowed a voice, you xenephobes.
- Saturday, March 17, 2001 at 18:27:23 (GMT)
anyone know any good websites on pain? I am doing an essay on the assessment of pain. Any help greatly appreciated
 em <emmahis@yahoo.co.uk>
- Saturday, March 17, 2001 at 14:43:29 (GMT)
I didnt realise this site had suddenly become a forum for meeting and greeting canucks. Shouldnt they be off watching ice hockey or molesting moose or chopping trees?
 Ima Lumberjack <imalumberjack@iwearwomensclothesbutimok.com>
- Saturday, March 17, 2001 at 12:11:08 (GMT)
I didnt realise this site had suddenly become a forum for meeting and greeting canucks. Shouldnt they be off watching ice hockey or molesting moose or chopping trees?
- Saturday, March 17, 2001 at 12:09:55 (GMT)
I didnt realise this site had suddenly become a forum for meeting and greeting canucks. Shouldnt they be off watching ice hockey or molesting moose or chopping trees?
- Saturday, March 17, 2001 at 12:09:17 (GMT)
Canadians
In answer to the Canadian who left a message below, over here the government provides a free health care service called the National Health Service, this is available to all British people free of charge. In order for the Government to be able to provide this service they need doctors and nurses - and who is going to pay for their own training??? If you have no money how do you pay for it? Part time jobs won't cover the fees. So they train nurses here and pay them to train, because at the end of the day, most newly qualified nurses will work for the NHS and contribute to its future. Whilst in training students over here work very hard, and are expected to do so. In addition to learning nursing procedures we are also expected to muck in and do stuff like getting patients up, washed and dressed, making coffee and tea, making beds e.t.c. and we cannot refuse to do these tasks. In Canada health is not free, Canadians pay for their health care, so my friend in Banff just told me, so as the Canadian government don't exactly provide an equivalent NHS why should they pay to train nurses? That should be left to the people who provide the health services, and if they don't pay you to train, that's a bit of bad luck really. We are a bit like the military forces - the Government needs them - they need us, and they pay us all (nurses, doctors, soldiers, airmen, sailors, policemen e.t.c) to train to ensure that people will come into these professions. Out of interest do Canadian military and policemen have to pay for their training?
Catherine <catherine1jod31@hotmail.com>
- Friday, March 16, 2001 at 20:30:02 (GMT)
Bursary
It is great that students are getting a rise in bursary, even if it still doesnt bring it up to a satisfactory level, however what about us poor 3rd years who are due to qualify in sept? It would have been nice to have a bit extra for the last few months, still once qualified we'll all be earning bucket loads, and will be buying flash cars and big houses. Become a nurse folks it's so worth the stress (yes i am an extremly fraught and desperate third year student, who may end up being put on a section rather then caring for people on a section.)!!!
Lindsay <lindsay_terris@hotmail.com>
- Friday, March 16, 2001 at 20:26:58 (GMT)
What is the duty for a Nursing student?
 none
- Friday, March 16, 2001 at 20:07:41 (GMT)
What is the duty for a Nursing student?
 none
- Friday, March 16, 2001 at 20:07:39 (GMT)
What is the duty for a Nursing student?
 none
- Friday, March 16, 2001 at 20:07:36 (GMT)
FORGET CANADA WE WANT MORE FOR BRITISH NURSING STUDENTS
I think you've got it wrong here, just because Canadians have a real tough time doesn't mean that we should be celebrating what we've got. A call to everyone: CONTINUE THE FIGHT 10.4% IS NOT ENOUGH WE ALSO WANT A MEANS TESTED BURSARY FOR ALL THAT MEANS DEGREE AND DIPLOMA STUDENTS, ACCESS TO AFFORDABLE FINANCIAL SUPPORT, ACCESS TO SICKNESS AND MATERNITY BENEFITS BUT MOST OF ALL WE DON'T WANT TO BE IN DEBT WHEN WE QUALIFY CONTINUE THE FIGHT
MR BURSARY NOT SALARY
- Friday, March 16, 2001 at 14:32:07 (GMT)
maths
Andrea dont worry about the maths content, I bought a really good book called "nursing calculations" by Gatford & Anderson published by Churchill Livingstone & this is really handy.
sarah <sarah.doyle@ntlworld.com>
- Friday, March 16, 2001 at 13:19:01 (GMT)
Im Skint!
Well said lindawick(?) from Canada, Britain is one of the only countries in the world where student nurses get a bursary. in some countries they get loans but obviously they have to pay them back, can you imagine us being asked to pay back the bursary! they'd be anarchy. Maybe we could be a little more happy with our situation?
 Nat Mills
- Friday, March 16, 2001 at 11:14:18 (GMT)
I hate to tell you this, but student nurses in Canada don't get paid at all for their clinical placements. We have to pay for the privilige of working in the hospitals, we also pay for our tuition, uniforms, and living expenses (transport, childcare...) We would appreciate even minimum wage.
 lindabwick@hotmail.com
- Thursday, March 15, 2001 at 23:34:32 (GMT)
Is there much maths??
Can anyone give me any tips on what maths is involved, what should I be polishing up on?
 Andrea
- Thursday, March 15, 2001 at 22:51:22 (GMT)
I really can't believe that we have to wait until September until getting the extra bursary!! WHY????? Are we suddenly more deserving from September then??? Don't understand!!
- Wednesday, March 14, 2001 at 21:49:06 (GMT)
What an excellent bunch of chappies Tony and Alan are for giving us students nurses such a whizzo pay rise. can't wait to be able to buy an extra slice of and a bonus tin of beans. Good on you, you spiffing bunch of chaps you've done us all proud
- Wednesday, March 14, 2001 at 18:50:56 (GMT)
Loads o money(!)
Ive just read on the Department of Health web site that, the 10.4% increase in bursaries will be implemented from September as we thought. Mr Milburn said 'student nurses deserve more than they are currently getting'! well observed Mr M! any chance of backdating it to when it was announced (ie April) like the Trusts do with pay increases? just think an extra £260ish bonus in September, not likely me thinks.
 Nat Mills <natwm@blueyonder.co.uk>
- Wednesday, March 14, 2001 at 16:03:49 (GMT)
time for some sleep
Hi Nigel, Did I sound really desperate? Thanks for replying on both occasions. I can't believe what I read, I thought it was a sick joke, do you not think its a little bit crazy, I realize they need to try whatever they can but I don't think i would be up for it even if i was in a similar position. Is this just America? I'm loving being a mum, i just need to try and accept the major changes as its quite a shock to the system. I'm just getting used to the reality of returning to work, major headache. Anyway I'd better go to bed as young Ellie has awoken. Nice chatting to you. I only found this site yesterday and I cannot seem to leave it alone. Anyway I'll stop rambling and get to bed. Goodnight
 Andrea
- Wednesday, March 14, 2001 at 01:08:11 (GMT)
Up Late
Hi Andrea, I can't stay and chat but just letting you know that someone else is about :-). I sent you an email with the link to the Independents version of the Parkinson's Disease story - did you see it on the British Nursing News Online website? Are you enjoying being a new mum?
 Nigel <webmaster@thornbury-nursing-services.co.uk>
- Wednesday, March 14, 2001 at 00:24:07 (GMT)
is anybody there
Is this a chatroom is there any students to be wanting a chat? Or am i just a sad lonely new mum ? I don't want to go to bed yet. Somebody talk to me.
 Andrea
- Wednesday, March 14, 2001 at 00:09:17 (GMT)
Emma and Nat
Thanks for replying, although I don,t suppose you have any idea the range of questions they may ask, just so I can prepare myself. Also tonight I read about some recent trials on Parkinsons and I don't know whether somebody is having a sick joke and I'm really gullible but it said that the human guinea pigs literally have holes drilled through their heads and that the cells of aborted foetuses are inserted. This cannot be true, can it? Another thing I wanted to ask is, how much maths is involved and if so what should I be polishing up on as my maths is appalling. And is there any books I consider buying.
 Andrea Penberthy <justin@andrea44.fsnet.co.uk>
- Tuesday, March 13, 2001 at 22:47:47 (GMT)
Great !!!
Its a great start though - it'll increase my income left over after paying for travel and childcare by at least 25% - Perhaps now i'll be able to afford a much yearned for birthday party for my son later this year.
Hadassah Eaton
- Tuesday, March 13, 2001 at 19:20:22 (GMT)
Bursary
Well I see we get about an extra £500 a year - so much for getting the minimum wage!!!! The government prefers to spend its money on doctors, keeping them in the NHS - they will be the only ones left working in it if this keeps up! I think the students should all go out on strike!!!
 Catherine <catherine1jod31@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, March 13, 2001 at 18:39:05 (GMT)
Increase in the bursary
Alan Milburn will be announcing a 10.4% increase in the bursary today. UNISON welcomes the increase as a step in the right direction. Well done to everyone who has been active!!!
 Dominic Forristal <D.Forristal@unison.co.uk>
- Tuesday, March 13, 2001 at 14:08:30 (GMT)
Answer to Em
Well Em, that sounds just about right! I'm a second year and fed up with it all - I think the way student nurses are treated by the NHS staff is disgusting, and their communication and teaching skills are rubbish!!! No wonder when student nurses qualify they don't know anything - but may be if these so called qualified members of staff ACTUALLY STOPPED COMPLAINING AND TAUGHT NOW AND AGAIN there wouldn't be so many newly qualified nurses who didn't have a clue about nursing procedures. Okay, I will get down off my soap box now (anyone got a ladder? I'm only little ......)
 Catherine <catherine1jod31@hotmail.com>
- Monday, March 12, 2001 at 22:10:06 (GMT)
Secondment
Sorry about my poor message I have just read it, after sending and what a lash up. A tad to much wine I'm afraid. Hope you can all make sense of it.
 Andrea Penberthy <justin@andrea44.fsnet.co.uk>
- Monday, March 12, 2001 at 21:50:50 (GMT)
secondment I am due to commence training in Sept and have been shortlisted for secondment. The interview is in the near future and I could do with some help in regards to the questions they may fire at me. Any help would be greatly appreciated as my head is totally shot away at the moment since giving birth to my first child twenty weeks ago. Reading your comments on finances as terrified me as I need to find enough dosh for fulltime childcare. Please help this is pretty important.
 justin@andrea44.fsnet.co.uk
- Monday, March 12, 2001 at 21:44:09 (GMT)
The best WWW ever!
take a look at this website, its the best for anything to do with life sciences - www.vh.org
 Nat Mills <natwm@blueyonder.co.uk>
- Monday, March 12, 2001 at 20:02:02 (GMT)
What a great placement I have spent the last few weeks at!! I have been used as an auxillary as the ward is short staffed. My assessor ignores me despite my efforts to communicate with her. The nurses are too busy to teach and when I actually stop to see something interesting, I am told to 'go and answer that bell' or 'serve the meals'. I then hear the nurses saying how useless some student nurses are. Not surprising after recieving zero support. In 10 months I will be qualified. Having spent the last few months literally fighting to learn on the wards, i am now starting to lose the fight. I hear these problems from student nurses all the time. I know that wards are busy and understaffed but surely our learning should not be compromised. I feel totally disillusioned with it all. I am fed up with trying to be student nurse/potential staff nurse/auxillary rolled into one. How do others feel???
 em <emmahis@yahoo.co.uk>
- Monday, March 12, 2001 at 19:29:42 (GMT)
general chat
I am a nursing student in my first year. Can any of you more experienced student nurses give me any tips. Looking forward to receiving your tips and thanks.
 jane <jane@familydoodson.co.uk>
- Monday, March 12, 2001 at 19:28:57 (GMT)
AHHHHHHHHHHHH need an essay can you help
Hello fellow nurses, I'm in my 2nd year and in dire need of an essay on patient assessment. Please contact me if you can help.
 John <jeg13@cant.ac.uk>
- Monday, March 12, 2001 at 16:37:26 (GMT)
You're mad but very funny!! I love people with a wicked sense of humour!!
 Anita
- Monday, March 12, 2001 at 15:51:01 (GMT)
Thank you.
You make me feel like a xpelair extractor fan. I must admit I do seem to have knack of making some people "blow" their top.hehehehe hahaha, blow their top. I like that.
 Miles
- Sunday, March 11, 2001 at 20:48:16 (GMT)
Miles you are a breath of fresh air mate!!!!
- Sunday, March 11, 2001 at 07:59:54 (GMT)
Yeh I'll Be a Nurse.
Yes I'm one of the few mad people who actually want to become a nurse. I've been a senior camera man,graphics manager, company director and now own my own retail out let. I've also never been paid more than £18,000 per year and at present don't even make the minimum wage (working 6 days per week). For the past couple of months I've been working as an auxillary. I've never felt so needed and appreciated in my life! Believe me there are some of the greatest people I've ever met in this industry. But you can be sure when I am qualified there will be some serious butt kicking coming from my corner to get rates of pay & bursaries up!...soon as I empty this bedpan, clean the floor, fight off some relatives, make a bed, plaster and paint a wall, feed some guy in bed, clean up some shi.......
 David <davidking@sparkles.synergie.net>
- Saturday, March 10, 2001 at 16:27:10 (GMT)
Very true.
I could not have put it better. Heather and Tim.
 Miles
- Saturday, March 10, 2001 at 13:16:20 (GMT)
Ummmm.... That just about sums it up Tim!!!
 Anita
- Saturday, March 10, 2001 at 10:16:45 (GMT)
NHS - Be All You Can Be!
Hello, thinking of a career in nursing? Excellent. We need nurses, and lots of them. We are looking for enthusiastic men and women to train now. We offer an excellent training course lasting three years, excellent rates of pay - up to £6,000 per annum for those living and working in London (Gosh!!!). During your three years, you will learn lots of academic stuff (lovely!) some of which won't be relevent but looks good anyway. You will be able to work on the wards, clean up after people, never get a chance to sit down, be humiliated by wonderful staff such as HCA's and qualified nurses and doctors, you will work shifts, pay for your own travelling expenses, be rushed off your feet, have no end of essays and assignments to complete, but don't worry, we give you a couple of weeks holiday in which to do those!!! You will also be put under a great deal of stress, and live in poverty, but don't worry, when you qualify you get a wacking great £15,000 a year in your pay packet!!! Wow!!! So why not join today? NHS - Be All You Can Be!
 Tim Nice But Dim <Timmy@endoftether.com>
- Friday, March 09, 2001 at 23:46:58 (GMT)
Patronising
It isn't just OT's that are patronising Miles, plenty of other health care professionals are also very patronising!!! It seems that because they are qualified and know a bit about medical conditions e.t.c. that they have the right to talk down at people!!!
 Heather
- Friday, March 09, 2001 at 23:08:23 (GMT)
Kate scroll right down the page there are loads of sites!!!
Lynette
- Friday, March 09, 2001 at 10:25:26 (GMT)
OTs
Is it true, do you think, that before an OT can call themselves "PROFESSIONAL" they have to gain a degree in "HOW TO PATRONISE" I just wondered.
 Miles
- Thursday, March 08, 2001 at 21:10:32 (GMT)
Help me It's essay time
Hi everyone. Well I need some help on my essay. My question is Health and Safety. I have chosen Hand washing as my topic which is pertinent to nursing. I've got to write about the role of the nurse. If anyone can help me please e mail me and I will tell you in a bit more detail what my problems with the essay. Thankyou Very very very very much
 kate <kate_315@altavista.co.uk>
- Thursday, March 08, 2001 at 21:02:15 (GMT)
Thanks Lynette,
For your kind comments, you know what some people are like, they tell you that they "love" the whole world and all who live in it, yet they treat their colleagues with contempt. I used to work with a bloke who collected siver paper. He told the staff and patients that it was to be sent off to some far-off place to build a power station or something like that. Any way, this went on year in year out. Then one day I was going around the hospital asking staff if they would like to make a donation towards buying some flowers so we could send them to the funeral of a nurse who had been killed in a road traffic accident she was only 23yrs. One person told me he, "would rather not give any thing " Guess who he was? The silver paper man>
Miles
- Thursday, March 08, 2001 at 21:01:44 (GMT)
Nice comment Miles (March 3rd) I love it! you know how to make enemies, did you not see how I got ripped to shreads by the hypersensitive few that visit this site. I think that there are a lot of people that mis interpret the messages put on this site..... I guess that it is as you say an 'communication issue', but it is hard for some people to understand words isn't it?
lynette
- Thursday, March 08, 2001 at 20:11:34 (GMT)
The best man for the job
He threw more money at the NHS, lets hope its used correctly.
 Nat Mills
- Thursday, March 08, 2001 at 14:06:59 (GMT)
GORDON BROWN
What did you do for us then, Gordon?
 "Skint student nurse"
- Thursday, March 08, 2001 at 13:27:23 (GMT)
Bursary
A student in one of the cohorts below mine just told me that the student bursary is going up in April - I have heard nothing about this myself, has anyone else heard anything about it?
 Catherine <catherine1jod31@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, March 06, 2001 at 22:37:54 (GMT)
Seeking Leane....
Hi Gary,
Try contacting the UKCC www.ukcc.org.uk. If she is still registered they will have an address for her and be able to pass a message on to her from you.
 Nigel <webmaster@thornbury-nursing-services.co.uk>
- Tuesday, March 06, 2001 at 21:41:47 (GMT)
RCN GEN SEC
You might want to see www.guardian.society.co.uk in the health section. Beverly Malone has accepted the Rcn job and there is a thoughtful piece on this by Patrick Butler
 ray rowden <ray@rolf99.freeserve.co.uk>
- Tuesday, March 06, 2001 at 21:34:55 (GMT)
Looking for Leanne Earle
As I am looking for a freind, I don't expect that if by chance someone knows her that they just pop up with her phone number. If by that chance that someone has heard of Leanne or knows her, Please pass on my email address and/or my phone number which is New Zealand 03 3861119, If you can help me that would be great, does anyone know where else I can look to get information. Thanks
Gary Thomas <grthomas@paradise.net.nz>
- Tuesday, March 06, 2001 at 20:05:21 (GMT)
Lost friend or foe?
Whilst Gary may well be 100% genuine. I don't think it a good idea to give the where-abouts of colleagues. The person he is looking for, can email him direct if they wish. It is not for anyone else to pass on this infomation.
 Lucy
- Tuesday, March 06, 2001 at 18:00:05 (GMT)
I'm looking for a nurse called Leanne earle
Hi I'm looking for a old friend who is a nurse somewhere in London, her name is Leanne Earle she is about 32 years old and worked at kings collage till maybe 1995. If you know her please let me know and of coarse let her know I'm looking for her Thanks Gary Thomas
 Gary Thomas <grthomas@paradise.net.nz>
- Tuesday, March 06, 2001 at 05:59:39 (GMT)
Play misty for me
Let us all hope that the Conservative and Unionist Party triumph at the next election! The Labour party seems to have fallen well short of expectation, judging by the sage comments below. Can all look forward to another 18 years of benign dictatorship under another King Billy (Conservative and Unionist, remember), in the mold of his beloved Queen Margaret? If this is the case then we will be able to see another round of hospitals opening almost daily, nurses being given a continuous stream of above inflation pay rises. Perhaps a new initiative to place another group of the nation's disadvantaged beyond the scope of adequate care, alongside the old, mentally ill. Perhaps we can look forward to nursing care being tendered out to the lowest bidder, smashing! Along with that, how about tax breaks for those who can afford private medicine and who seem to have reserved parking at most hospitals. I will have to stop, I am getting all misty-eyed for the good old days, under a proper government, Government for the few by few. I can remember commuting through central London, past the nurses outside hospitals waving banners about just how f***ing happy they were under the Tories. Hope you get what you all want...
 Roger
- Monday, March 05, 2001 at 23:36:24 (GMT)
No it is not legal!
No Cathrine, in law what you say is not just or legal. If you were to seek legal advice they would tell you that. I am at the moment in talks with the BBC about a documentary "Nurse" If all goes well, it should expose things like the above. In due course I will be seeking the help from all NHS staff. I will give you an update in a week or two. Kind Regards. Simon.
 Simon
- Monday, March 05, 2001 at 22:54:03 (GMT)
Tories, not all evil just mostly incompetant!!!
Miles, the tories were not all bad for the health service. They did bring in some much needed reforms. Whilst i admit that they messed up hugely they introduced some of the ideas that the present government is actually using. (Now im not sure who that says more about the tories or the present government?)However I am very worried about the PFI however is this really in the best interest of the NHS? Is it even a socialist policy?
Kris Nicol <nippernicol@Kris54.fsnet.co.uk>
- Monday, March 05, 2001 at 22:35:39 (GMT)
Nights
I have recently done a stint of night shifts lasting 11 1/2 hours each shift - then I thought about how much I was being paid, (£2.60 per hour or thereabouts) and I have since been wondering, Do we really have to work nights for that pittance? It's not as if we sit there reading or twiddling our thumbs all night, we are worked off our feet. I don't know how much the qualified staff and health cares get paid for working nights, but when we are getting paid well below the minimum wage, it can't be right!!! What does everyone else think about this?
 Catherine <catherine1jod31@hotmail.com>
- Monday, March 05, 2001 at 21:51:18 (GMT)
Reply to Peggy.
Don't be CONned by the CONservatives Peggy. When the Tories were in power the lost of beds and hospitals in the East Kent area was nothing short of a disgrace. CONstant underfunding by the Tories lead to the closure of Haine hospital,Ramsgate Hospital, The Royal sea bathing hospital. to name just a few. Roger Gale MP, Jonathan Aitken, ex MP Ex Prisoner, and Julian Braziar MP, Did nothing about it at the time, indeed it was stated at a public hearing that the Tories CONstant underfunding played a major part in the smear scandal at Kent & Canterbury hospital. I have said before, Labour are far from perfect, but you cannot expect them to put things right in 4 years what the Tories ruined over 18 years.
Miles
- Monday, March 05, 2001 at 19:16:14 (GMT)
UNISON's position on student hardship
UNISON's position on the solution to the financial hardship faced by nursing students isn't that different from the RCN. We both agree that the bursary is too low. That nursing students should be entitled to employment benefits such as sickness leave, maternity leave, industrial injury benefit and be able to contribute to the NHS pension scheme. The way they receive their improved income is where we are split. UNISON position is clear that nursing students do work and should therefore be paid for the work that they do. Students are required to do a 37½ hour week and when on placements they do provide nursing care. Currently they earn £2.60 and hour. This is well short of the national minimum wage. Until 1988 nursing students were given a salary because of the caring contribution they made while learning. If students had retained their salary when nurse education moved into higher education they would have an annual income today of £10,000 (the Department of Health's own figures). Imagine if students today had that level of income. They would not be forced to work additional hours in a second job to survive financially and the level of debt accrued throughout three years in higher education would be significantly reduced. Nursing students could concentrate on their studies and achieve academic results to be proud of. In addition newly qualified nurses would not be carrying the heavy burden of debt to be repaid out of their new "D" grade nursing salary. Lets not forget that teachers and the police receive more during their education and training than nursing students and they and have higher earnings at the point of qualifying. The bursary system with its low level of income and lack of employment benefits is the cause of the high drop out rate and is the major contributor in placing too much pressure and stress on students. When bursaries were introduced nursing students and midwives not only lost their salaries but they also lost the protection of all their employment benefits such as, sickness leave, maternity leave, industrial injury benefit and access to the superannuation pension scheme. These are important employment benefits. The NHS can be an unhealthy and hostile environment to work and learn in. Students are equally exposed to hospital acquired infections as employed staff. They are just as likely to injure themselves at work - such as a back injury or by being involved in a violent incidence. However there is little or no protection from loss of earnings. Nursing students need the same protection as other employees in the NHS and they need a decent income to survive the course. With respect to maternity leave there is hope on the horizon. UNISON has made strong representation to the minister at the Department of Trade and Industry and the Department has given a commitment to finding a solution to the plight of nursing students who need maternity leave during their pre registration course. UNISON is committed to campaigning for all nursing students to be salaried and to be able to contribute to the NHS occupational pension scheme. Everyone acknowledges that the average age of nursing students has increased. Contributing to an occupational pension scheme is very important to individuals who want to ensure their financial independence in the future. Three years in education without being able to contribute to a pension is a long time and will mean that some will have to work longer and in some cases beyond the retirement age. Many nurses who started their nurse education before 1989 are grateful that they were automatically allowed to start their pension contributions from the moment they entered their course. The only way to regain these important employment benefits is to return to employment status. Don't be put off by false arguments about the loss of supernumerary status. This has always been a contentious issue. It used to be alleged that nursing students were treated as a pair of hands on the ward. However this is true today, students are still being exploited as a result of the registered nurse shortages. This does not mean that this is an acceptable situation but it is rather hypocritical to suggest that just because you are an employee that supernumerary status is somehow jeopardised. Employee status certainly doesn't make the status of those health care assistants seconded to courses any different to their nursing student peers on the same course.
Dominic Forristal
- Monday, March 05, 2001 at 15:57:09 (GMT)
Education & Training of Health Care Staff
The National Audit Office and Audit Commission have reported on education and training of health care staff. Some of the findings include: In 2000 - 2001 there were 50,000 nursing and midwifery students and 14,000 other health professional students. Vacancies in the NHS have increased from 7,300 in 99 to 10,000 in 2000. The NHS Plan states that by 2004 there will be a further 5,500 nurses and midwives and 4,450 others being trained each year and increase of more that 25%. Problems include: 1 in 6 students do not complete the course with a wide variation in non completion rates between universities. Many universities are at or near full capacity Many experience increasing difficulty in obtaining sufficient good quality practice placements. In addition the reports examine the position of HCA - " Trusts need to make training more accessible, for example, for those staff who cannot easily be released from their job - 40% of trusts had 20 or more staff per NVQ assessor - trusts need to ensure that they have sufficient appropriately trained mentors/assessors for staff undertaking NVQs and for other learners.
 Dominin Forristal <D.Forristal@unison.co.uk>
- Monday, March 05, 2001 at 15:46:02 (GMT)
Labour -v-Tories and the NHS
As one who has regular contact with Julian Brazier MP for Canterbury,(and no I have never yet voted Tory), I can assure Miles and others, he is making a sterling effort to prevent the downgrading of the Kent & Canterbury hospital and the closure of over 200 beds in East Kent. A fellow East Kent Tory MP, together with a Labour one in an ajoining constituency, is actively supporting the Health Authority in their plans that include the reduction of beds in an area where the population is growing at an alarming rate for the services that are being planned. What a situation we are in! Yes, under the Tories hospital beds were closed and the numbers of training places for nurses reduced. But what has the Labour government done for us in East Kent since they came to power? I will tell you! They are supporting the implementation of 'Tomorrow's Healthcare' started under the Tories! This includes obtaining PFIs, (Private Finance Initiatives), origionally 52 million now up to 102 million pounds that will give us no extra beds! It is no use just throwing additional money at the NHS, what is needed are experienced, efficient managers who will get their sums right and take on board what they are being told by the professionals at the coalface!
 Peggy Pryer
- Monday, March 05, 2001 at 00:31:24 (GMT)
You would say that!
wouldn't you "DAVE"
 Miles
- Sunday, March 04, 2001 at 22:09:03 (GMT)
MP's and sad people
You've surpassed yourself Miles. They all said you were paranoid but I didn't believe them..... Do you really believe that an MP would bother to spend time here spreading stories - to what aim? As busy as this site is it hardly constitutes a large audience. Get a life.... Oh for your information I'm an RMN, RGN.
 Dave <davergn@hotmail.com>
- Sunday, March 04, 2001 at 21:52:00 (GMT)
Im from the North you know
Now then, what's all this about? Labour are doing nothing for the NHS, remember we, well Maggie really, believed in individualism and the self and she almost destroyed the NHS and someone had to pick up the left overs and that was Labour, err it errm (im from a northenerrrr) will be us, Remember (Tory boy accent) 'a better Britain a Conservative Britain' n
 William Hague <billyboy@bunchof*******.co.uk>
- Sunday, March 04, 2001 at 21:45:11 (GMT)
Warning!
I have just been told that DAVE is NOT a nurse at all. He is in fact, Julian Braziar Tory MP for Canterbury. Well,well,well. A tory telling lies. No surprise.
Miles
- Sunday, March 04, 2001 at 21:39:29 (GMT)
Dear Dave
I will tell you how Labour has improved the NHS by the amount of money they are spending on it. The health service is a big ship to steer. The amount of money that is being spent on it today will not show until late 20001. The Tories knew this when they underfunded it over the 18 years that they were in power. There is no question about it. Labour is GOOD for the NHS. TORIES ARE BAD for the NHS.
 Miles
- Sunday, March 04, 2001 at 21:30:03 (GMT)
All this political non-sense, does'nt anyone realise that everytime a new government is elected they bring in thier own ideas and policys, wiping out much that the previous govt. has done. Perhaps an idea would be to not turn the NHS private and i stress that, but to make them an independant body, immune from any government medling. Just think the NHS would be partley removed from the political arena, and would not be the Daily Mail's and other right wing rag's, main headline every other day.
Nat Mills <natwm@blueyonder.co.uk>
- Sunday, March 04, 2001 at 21:20:32 (GMT)
Smiles for Miles
I don't want to Labour on the point as I don't think any of the political parties have shown a commitment to improving the NHS in general or nurses specifically, how have Labour specifically improved the NHS? Nice easy open ended question for you. The chance to say something positive. Maybe it's the target of getting 20,000 extra nurses, not whole time equivalent, but any nurses. If a nurse works five hours a week she counts as one of the 20,000! The trolleys in question may well have mattresses on them but only designed for short term occupancy. A corridor hardly provides privacy and if they are that pressed for beds I suspect they are not getting anything like the care they should be because it figures they staff will be overstretched in order to look after them. I think it's well over optomistic to think that if a patient is not one of the unfortunate 10% that they go home happy and satisfied. So I can only presume that Miles stands for Smiles and is just a wind up merchant. LMAO....... not!!
 Dave <davergn@hotmail.com>
- Sunday, March 04, 2001 at 19:19:49 (GMT)
Daily Mail Article....
Hi,
I think it must have been a regional news story in the Scottish Edition. I'll check to see if I can get more info tomorrow.
 Nigel <webmaster@thornbury-nursing-services.co.uk>
- Sunday, March 04, 2001 at 19:03:27 (GMT)
Daily mail article
Nigel - I couldn't find the article from the link you gave so i went out and bought the paper - can't find it in there either -what page is it on??????????
- Sunday, March 04, 2001 at 17:38:47 (GMT)
Think on!
All this rubbish about laying on trolleys. So what. These trollers do have a mattress on them haven't they? The patient,s are covered over, they are not laying in a wheely bin, are they? They are not laying on a bed of nails are they? A nurse doesn't come along every 10 minutes and throw a bucket of water over them do they? They are being cared for aren't they? When kent a canterbury A&E was built the extra wide corridors were designed to allow beds and trollerys to be put there if the bed area became full. Don't you ever forget that the TORIES were in power for 18 years. They closed more hospitals (and beds) than anyone since 1948 when the NHS started. Their motive was to make the NHS so unbearable that we would be forced into private health care. That is why they broke up the NHS into Trust. The Labour party are far from perfect, but they are 100% better than the scheming Tories. Don't keep knocking the service we provide do your very best to improve it.
Miles
- Sunday, March 04, 2001 at 17:26:29 (GMT)
Press coverage of NHS Conditions
Whatever the political colours of the national newspapers, at the present time they are all continually carrying stories about the sorry state of the NHS! Back in October, the Daily Mail covered the story of 'Third World Conditions' at the Kent & Canterbury hospital. On 21st February, a day after the article '36 HRS IN A CORRIDOR' appeared in the Sun, the Mail published a similar article entitled 'On the Corridors of Shame', again featuring the situation here in East Kent. Incidentally for those who did not see it, the full text of the Sun's article can be found on the web site: www.ekhospitals.co.uk. ALL RCN members in East Kent, INCLUDING NURSING STUDENTS, (you are the future of the nursing profession and the RCN, don't you ever forget it!), are invited to the next Canterbury RCN Branch meeting to be held at 7.30 pm in Training Room 1 at the Kent and Canterbury Hospital on Wednesday 7th March. This meeting will be attended by the Director of Nursing Services for the East Kent Hospitals NHS Trust. The meeting has been called for members to state their concerns regarding the unacceptable conditions that many patients and those caring for them are finding themselves in East Kent. An RCN Regional officer will be in attendance. Details of this and other branch activities can be obtained from the branch's e mail address.
Peggy Pryer PRO Canterbury RCN Branch <canterburyrcnbranch@hotmail.com>
- Sunday, March 04, 2001 at 16:25:32 (GMT)
Hey Miles what a breath of fresh air you are on this site!! you make me laugh
- Sunday, March 04, 2001 at 12:50:14 (GMT)
9/10.
In a recent survey one patient in ten suffered a mishap whilst under the care of the NHS. Well that means 9/10 had a great time and went home happy.
 Miles
- Sunday, March 04, 2001 at 12:41:36 (GMT)
Beware!
I would be beware of any story that was in the Daily or the Mail on sunday. Don't forget it is a Tory rag. It was the Tories who caused all this mess in the first place.
 Mike
- Sunday, March 04, 2001 at 12:28:18 (GMT)
Oh yes, one more thing.
Dave, I think you are sad. Miles has treated the whole thing as a wind-up. I am sure that what it is, but you just show yourself up for falling for it. Ha ha ha ha ha he he he ha ha ha heheheheheoooooooohahaha haha talk about laugh hahaha hehehehehe.
Mike
- Sunday, March 04, 2001 at 12:22:57 (GMT)
Bursaries!
Hi,
You may be interested to see that there is a story in the Mail on Sunday "RECORD NUMBER OF YOUNG NURSES ARE TOO POOR TO CARRY ON WITH STUDIES" - more details at British Nursing News Online
 Nigel <webmaster@thornbury-nursing-services.co.uk>
- Sunday, March 04, 2001 at 12:20:26 (GMT)
Bursaries!
You lot want to stop moaning about your bursaries and do something about it. Like mass resignation. Write a letter to your local health health authority informing them that because the bursarie payment is so low and you are not prepared to go on the "game" or become a "rent Boy" in order to live day to day, you will be leaving on the 1st of June 201. Inform all the TV/Radio station,s and all the newspapers of your intentions. I guarantee that your stuggle to survive will soon come to a end.
Mike
- Sunday, March 04, 2001 at 12:10:20 (GMT)
Sense of humour.....
Sorry..... Did we start talking about bursaries again?
 Dave <davergn@hotmail.com>
- Sunday, March 04, 2001 at 09:29:21 (GMT)
At least Miles has a sense of humour!!! Essential in Nursing is it not????
- Sunday, March 04, 2001 at 08:48:25 (GMT)
Generalisations and owning your comments...
Miles, If the point you were trying to make was that communication is key to nursing then you could have said as much without insulting anyone. Racism can be described as a belief that your own national group is superior than another. Your attitude in your reply to Ghoratolayn's message was mocking and unhelpful. The inability to express yourself coherently in English is not an indicator of intelligence. Your reference to hiring out deckchairs in Africa meant what specifically. Do you think that the writer was from Africa? If so, how did you come to that conclusion? There are various mistakes in the language you used in your messages. Would you be considered unable to speak the lingo. Should you be sent packing? I know a lot of foreign nationals who speak and write far better English than Staff Nurses I met through my training.
Dave <davergn@hotmail.com>
- Saturday, March 03, 2001 at 23:55:18 (GMT)
Hold on Miles!
My lovely labrador does not talk English, but the vet soon's find's out what wrong with him. However I take your point.
 Emma
- Saturday, March 03, 2001 at 20:58:53 (GMT)
Dave, old boy.
Why is it that anyone anywhere in the world can say what they like about us british, but if we dare to say anything about anyone then we are called that very mis used word racist. If a doctor or nurse working in this country cannot speak the lingo, then they are not a doctor or nurse, they are a danger and should be sent packing.
Miles
- Saturday, March 03, 2001 at 20:46:45 (GMT)
What???
Miles, Is the sign of an educated mind the ability to be an intolerant ignorant rascist? You have presumed that the message has come from someone who is thick because they can't speak English. I don't know whether the message is legit. but it would be worth finding out a bit more before offering your opinion. I was under the impression that a non-judgemental attitude was a valuable tool - it might be worth you getting aquainted with it before you start offering careers advice.
 Dave <davergn@hotmail.com>
- Saturday, March 03, 2001 at 20:21:56 (GMT)
Dear Ghoratolayn
I think you will understand why the british people get rather nervous when the government imports students and nurses from abroad. If you can't find your uni, what chance have you got of finding out if a patient has a PULSE. I have heard that hireing out deckchairs in Africa is a good job. Do you want me to get you a application form.
Miles
- Saturday, March 03, 2001 at 19:31:12 (GMT)
placement in usa
Has anyone out there done an elective placement in the USA if so would be most gratefull to her from you!
 heather toner <heahtone@livjm.ac.uk>
- Friday, March 02, 2001 at 12:10:19 (GMT)
Thanks Ralph
Thanks Ralph, to be honest, I believe that Unison students and RCN ANS believe in the same ultimate goal and it is only the way we go about that differs. We share our views and fight bittlery for our own beliefs but hey that's politics. BETTER FUNDING FOR STUDENT NURSES LET'S KEEP UP THE FIGHT

- Thursday, March 01, 2001 at 17:23:57 (GMT)
secondments
I would like to have been seconded to do my nurse training as it was quite clear from the very beginning what the bursary was going to be and I therefore knew of the financial commitment that I was about to take on when starting the course. It would be very nice if the bursary was a lot higher, and if we all got the benefits that we deserve, but we don't and therefore I would just like to say thankyou to those who are giving their best, and taking time out of their studies to fight our cause. You are very undervalued that is members of the ANS and of UNISON for the good work that you do. I would like to see some unity between the work that you do and to eventually see you both getting on with each other. Just for information. The trust that I work for only offers seconded places to health care assistants who have been employed within the trust for two years or more, and only offer three seconded places.
 Ralph
- Thursday, March 01, 2001 at 13:19:09 (GMT)
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